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 2.9 24v sierra project

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markobcars
Skogenracing Small
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: 2.9 24v sierra project   tor 25 aug 2011, 02:41

Hello!!

I am from Croatia! I've been surfing trough Skogenracing forum for a long time so I decided to join...

I do a lot of machining and modifications by myself and I have also made my own programmable engine management system...
It has 2 units... Fuel injection and ignition... It is very fast and has high resolution maps... If You are interested I can start a new
thread to show You what it looks like..

This is one of my project cars which I would like to show and also I will need some help as I go on with the project...

My plan is to build a Ford sierra with N/A 2.9 v6 24v that I could use for local drifting events...

I have tried to post some pictures but I have to wait...
New members are not allowed to post external links or emails for 7 days....


I took the heads off so I can port them and renew valve seals,lifters and everything else that is in bad condition...

Please if anyone can help me about the RPM limit for those engines.... some say 6250.. some 7000RPM???

I would like to use v6 T9 box with 3.92 diff... and I need some 7500RPM to make this short ratio work...

If anyone has some information about stock 6AA rods strength and KX110 rod bolt strength it would be very helpful...

Engine configuration will be...

stock(modified) pistons
stock(modified) or aftermarket rods
ARP rod bolts
lightened stock flywheel
ported heads
stock valves(modified)
custom intake manifolds
custom exhaust headers
stock cam chain wheels modified to allow adjustment
my own ECU(programmable fuel injection and DIS ignition,not a copy of anything out there)
block flex plate and custom sump
etc...

Thank You in advance!!
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Joel
Skogenracing Supreme


Antal inlägg : 533
Age : 29
Namn : Joel
Från : Norrhult, Småland
Kör : Golf GTI 16v -89, Ford Sierra -88
Registration date : 10-03-06

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   tor 25 aug 2011, 16:01

Hi and welcome! Im very interested to see more of your own EFI system?
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markobcars
Skogenracing Small
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   fre 26 aug 2011, 15:03

I promise I'll start another EFI thread as soon as I can post some pictures...
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Joel
Skogenracing Supreme


Antal inlägg : 533
Age : 29
Namn : Joel
Från : Norrhult, Småland
Kör : Golf GTI 16v -89, Ford Sierra -88
Registration date : 10-03-06

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   fre 26 aug 2011, 21:02

ok then, sounds good. Very Happy
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Grey
Skogencrew
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Antal inlägg : 2023
Age : 36
Namn : Jocke
Från : 08-land
Kör : Ford P100
Registration date : 06-10-30

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   fre 26 aug 2011, 22:45

Hi Markobcars,
Welcome to Skogenracings forum. Smile

markobcars skrev:
Hello!!

I am from Croatia! I've been surfing trough Skogenracing forum for a long time so I decided to join...

I do a lot of machining and modifications by myself and I have also made my own programmable engine management system...
It has 2 units... Fuel injection and ignition... It is very fast and has high resolution maps... If You are interested I can start a new
thread to show You what it looks like..

That sounds really interesting. Please do when you are able to post links and so on. Smile

markobcars skrev:


This is one of my project cars which I would like to show and also I will need some help as I go on with the project...

My plan is to build a Ford sierra with N/A 2.9 v6 24v that I could use for local drifting events...

I have tried to post some pictures but I have to wait...
New members are not allowed to post external links or emails for 7 days....

I took the heads off so I can port them and renew valve seals,lifters and everything else that is in bad condition...

Please if anyone can help me about the RPM limit for those engines.... some say 6250.. some 7000RPM???

I have run 6500 without any problems with my BOA. 7K should not be a problem but the BOA/BOB cams is not optimal for revving so above 6000 the engine gets slow. The old 12v with push rods can make 7K with the right camshaft, so if you fix your BOA/BOB cams, then it should be possible to rev 7K without destroying anything.

markobcars skrev:


I would like to use v6 T9 box with 3.92 diff... and I need some 7500RPM to make this short ratio work...

It will probably get better. I run a MT75 with 3,36 on my Scorpio and it was best on the second gear. If you want to get it a little bit faster but still have great power, your setup should be better.
Scorpio drift movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3mWLWNxW2U

markobcars skrev:


If anyone has some information about stock 6AA rods strength and KX110 rod bolt strength it would be very helpful...

The original rods in the 1995 - 1998 12v are the same as in the BOA and BOB (6AA), and they are supposed to be a little better than the old ones, but the old ones holds for 471whp revvin 6800 rpm so rods should not be a problem if you are not going above 7K. The bolts is a little different. The Cosworth bolts are the same, but the nuts is a little smaller, lighter and of course not as durable as the old ones. Look at the pic below.
The specs is 900nm VS 1100-1300nm:


I would say it is give or take, but the old ones are stronger on paper.

markobcars skrev:


Engine configuration will be...

stock(modified) pistons
stock(modified) or aftermarket rods
ARP rod bolts
lightened stock flywheel
ported heads
stock valves(modified)
custom intake manifolds
custom exhaust headers
stock cam chain wheels modified to allow adjustment
my own ECU(programmable fuel injection and DIS ignition,not a copy of anything out there)
block flex plate and custom sump
etc...

Thank You in advance!!

If you got a BOA, then for an easy way of getting more HP is to get the BOB cams. They will give you better HP and better torque over the whole rpm registry. Not as good as a after market camshaft, but a lot cheaper.

More to say, is that the BOB engine block is reinforced for greater tentions. It have massive wings on each side in the middle, instead of the regular strengthening of the BOA block compared to the 12v block, but again, the 12v is capable of 471whp and 6800rpm yet without any problems.

If you got any more questions, please don´t hesitate to ask. Smile

_________________
// Grey

http://www.racemovie.se

Visdomsord:

  • So thats how easy it is to let people know that you are different, you are not one of them!
    It will make you feel good, and it will make them feel even better!

  • "My definition of insane?
    Doing the same thing as everyone else and expecting a different result!"

  • We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master.
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markobcars
Skogenracing Small
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   fre 26 aug 2011, 23:25

Thank You so much for answers and suggestions!! Smile

The engine is a later BOB version...

From cam timing data I can see that this engine is timed for torque,it doesn't have enough overlap(22*) or duration for above 7k RPM operation but with DIY adjustable cam chain wheels I will be able to add some overlap and time the cam properly...

I've had great results with stock Pinto engines in that high RPM/short gear ratio configuration... The only thing that was modified was the flywheel and double valve springs(outer standard and inner from 2.0 DOHC 8v engines)...

I did some calculations of mean and maximum piston speeds for BOB at 7k RPM an I have compared the data with calculations for stock pinto rods and it looks pretty good!!

BOB has great rod/stroke ratio (1.813) and lighter pistons than pinto.. also piston rings are thinner and don't produce so much drag...

It should take 7000RPM without a problem...

I know about the rod bolts and my plan is to bore the rod bolt holes to 9mm and fit ARP rod bolts for pinto engines...

Also rods will be lightened and polished on the I beams and gudgeon pins will be lightened with electro erosion...

What about the valve springs??? how much can they handle without being shimmed or replaced with uprated items??






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Grey
Skogencrew
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Antal inlägg : 2023
Age : 36
Namn : Jocke
Från : 08-land
Kör : Ford P100
Registration date : 06-10-30

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   fre 26 aug 2011, 23:37

markobcars skrev:
Thank You so much for answers and suggestions!! Smile

The engine is a later BOB version...

From cam timing data I can see that this engine is timed for torque,it doesn't have enough overlap(22*) or duration for above 7k RPM operation but with DIY adjustable cam chain wheels I will be able to add some overlap and time the cam properly...

I've had great results with stock Pinto engines in that high RPM/short gear ratio configuration... The only thing that was modified was the flywheel and double valve springs(outer standard and inner from 2.0 DOHC 8v engines)...

I did some calculations of mean and maximum piston speeds for BOB at 7k RPM an I have compared the data with calculations for stock pinto rods and it looks pretty good!!

BOB has great rod/stroke ratio (1.813) and lighter pistons than pinto.. also piston rings are thinner and don't produce so much drag...

It should take 7000RPM without a problem...

I know about the rod bolts and my plan is to bore the rod bolt holes to 9mm and fit ARP rod bolts for pinto engines...

Also rods will be lightened and polished on the I beams and gudgeon pins will be lightened with electro erosion...

What about the valve springs??? how much can they handle without being shimmed or replaced with uprated items??


Hehe, you are welcome. Smile
Great that you have the BOB block. Great to build on and the better cams already. Unfortunately you also got the special fuel rail and injectors, but i guess you will get it right when you will build your own intake and plenum.

The overlap should do the trick. Its not that slow above 6K, but it should get much better with adjustable cam wheels.

The pistons is much lighter but the piston rings is the same as in the 12v. The oil ring is different though.

Sounds like a great plan with the rods but i guess you wont get much from it, but still. When you have everything apart, why not. Smile

The valve springs will hold for 7K.

_________________
// Grey

http://www.racemovie.se

Visdomsord:

  • So thats how easy it is to let people know that you are different, you are not one of them!
    It will make you feel good, and it will make them feel even better!

  • "My definition of insane?
    Doing the same thing as everyone else and expecting a different result!"

  • We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master.
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
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markobcars
Skogenracing Small
avatar

Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   lör 27 aug 2011, 00:13

[quote]Sounds like a great plan with the rods but i guess you wont get much from it, but still. When you have everything apart, why not. Smile

Yes I agree... I'll get some 300-500RPM more with lightening and polishing...

I have a lot 6AA rods to play with so I'll cut one in the thinnest part of the I beam and measure it's surface area so I can compare it to pinto rods...

The material and heat treatment of both(pinto and 6AA) rods should be the same and from that and piston speed and weight I could calculate theoretical RPM limit...

Limits for stock Pinto rods are well known...

I'd like that 7500RPM limit so much... Smile
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markobcars
Skogenracing Small
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   tor 01 sep 2011, 00:36

After a little investigation on stock rods I found out that they can handle 7000RPM with ARP bolts...

In combination with 3.92 diff , 2.9 v6 T9 gearbox and 205/45 16 wheels that would be just enough...

here are 2.9 V6 T9 ratios:

1: 3.36
2: 1.81
3: 1.26
4: 1.0
5: 0.825

Wheel RPM with shift point @7000RPM and 3.92 diff

1: 531
2: 986
3: 1417
4: 1785
5: 2177

Tire 205/45 16 circumference is 1856,37mm....

Speeds in gears:

1: 59.14km/h
2: 109.82
3: 157.82
4: 198.817
5: 242.47

That looks good...
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markobcars
Skogenracing Small
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   tor 01 sep 2011, 22:47

Hello!

I just got some good news from China...

I will have 2 sets(12pcs) of custom H beam rods for v6 engine for sale at around $600 so if anyone is interested...

They are 4340 forged items
bushed for floating pins
center to center lenght is 131mm (stock is 130,5)
they come without bolts(3/8" bolts) so You can choose bolts to your RPM needs...
ratings are 900Hp in v6 applications and 8-9000RPM depending on rod bolts and piston weight...
hardness after heat treatment HCR 35-40

This is what the company says about themselves...

Our main products are cylinder heads, cylinder blocks, crankshafts, camshafts, pistons, liners, piston rings, connecting rods, nozzles, plungers, delivery valves and cams which are compatible with engines of Caterpillar, Cummins, Deutz, Hino, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Komatsu and Toyota.

All of our products are manufactured under strict quality control and according to the international quality standards. 70% parts we offer have OEM quality. Meanwhile, we can produce according customer's samples or technical drawings. We always welcome clients' customized orders.

I'll use one set in my v6 24v build and I'll post some pictures as soon as I get them...

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markobcars
Skogenracing Small
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   tor 01 sep 2011, 22:49

I forgot to write that it is a $600 for a set!!! 6pcs...

On ebay first set that I can find is $930 so that is a really good price...
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markobcars
Skogenracing Small
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   fre 02 sep 2011, 00:36

Here are some pictures of the car finnaly:)






































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markobcars
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   tis 06 dec 2011, 22:52

I finally got my custom rods. One set goes for $600 without rod bolts.


free image hosting


upload images
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Grey
Skogencrew
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Antal inlägg : 2023
Age : 36
Namn : Jocke
Från : 08-land
Kör : Ford P100
Registration date : 06-10-30

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   ons 07 dec 2011, 09:02

Nice!
The bolt diameter is the same size as original, and is it press fit?

_________________
// Grey

http://www.racemovie.se

Visdomsord:

  • So thats how easy it is to let people know that you are different, you are not one of them!
    It will make you feel good, and it will make them feel even better!

  • "My definition of insane?
    Doing the same thing as everyone else and expecting a different result!"

  • We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master.
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil http://www.racemovie.se
markobcars
Skogenracing Small
avatar

Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   ons 07 dec 2011, 12:16

Rod bolt size is 3/8" which is much thicker than original bolts and they are bushed for floating piston pins so in 12V applications pistons need to be machined to accept seeger or C-clip retainer.
They also have a slightly longer c/c length of 131mm(standard is 130.5mm) .
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Tobbe H
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Antal inlägg : 193
Namn : Tobias H
Från : Sundsvall
Kör : Sierra DOHC
Registration date : 07-01-16

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   ons 07 dec 2011, 21:25

What is the weight of one rod?
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markobcars
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Antal inlägg : 19
Age : 34
Namn : Marko
Från : Borovac
Kör : Ford Sierra 2.9 cosworth
Registration date : 11-08-25

InläggRubrik: Sv: 2.9 24v sierra project   ons 07 dec 2011, 22:31

They are all 489g +/- 1 gram without rod bolts.
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