HemHem  Vanliga frågorVanliga frågor  SökSök  Bli medlemBli medlem  MedlemslistaMedlemslista  AnvändargrupperAnvändargrupper  Logga in  
Dela | 
 

 Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo

Föregående ämne Nästa ämne Gå ner 
Gå till sida : 1, 2, 3  Nästa
FörfattareMeddelande
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tis 05 feb 2013, 13:30

Hi guys!

I'm from hungary, building a sierra wagon, and planning to run turbo Smile

Sorry, I only speak english, but I saw a few threads in english, so I hope its not a big problem :)I tried to google translate stuff, I learned a few bits and bobs, but translater isnt the best thing :)So I thought its easier to ask, hope I can get some answers.

I'm currently running a Sierra wagon with a 2.9 24V BOB, with the original EEC-V Ecu (running pats, and the transmission selector etc etc... So its a big mess, but its working). Everything works ok (exept for the VIS valve, wich is acting strange sometimes..), but obviously, there could be more power :)I'm using it as a drift car / track car / winter-beater, but it has license plates, and I go everywhere "on foot". So reliability is a key factor. Oh, and I'm running on a very tight budget of course Smile

Few vids/pics if interrested:








I read a few english forums (fordpower.org.uk, fordscorpio.co.uk), learned a few things around there as well, but this forum looks the best!

So my plans are to run a single turbo setup on the bob. With that, I also want to rev the engine till around 6800-7000. I read that you need to do a reinforcing plate for the block, because the two center bearings are quite weak, and also I need to change the conrod bolts to ARP, and it should be reliable for 7000 rpm.

I only wish to blow the engine with ~0.7 bars, so max goals are around 300-350 hp, with large useable torque band. I saw a few turbos around here (holset hx35, gt40 etc), but I dont know wich should I choose for drifting, where not only the top power matters. Is it going to be reliable? Anybody running similar setup, with stock internals?

Also with injectors, I read that you can mod them to flow around 500ccm (by sanding of the restrictor plate, and matching them up), is this true? If not what kind of injectors should I look after? I read that skyline (rb25) injectors are plug&play, and subaru STI injectors as well? The subarus flow 440ccm, I dont know anything about the skylines?

As for the exhaust, can I use the stock header upside down? It would make the progress easier if I wouldnt need to fabricate a whole new header. Has anybody made something similar on a bob? I saw it on 12v engines.

Any other modifications recommended for this pressure / hp ? Any help will be much appriciated! The engine is in pieces at the moment, as my chain guides where almost done, so now would be a good time to make any mods.

I wish to run VEMS ecu btw.

Thank you for your help in advance!


Senast ändrad av Mancs den tis 25 jun 2013, 20:00, ändrad totalt 1 gång
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
_Macce_
Skogenracing Elite
avatar

Antal inlägg : 1257
Age : 27
Namn : Marcus
Från : Norrköping
Kör : Överladdad Ford
Registration date : 07-03-23

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   lör 16 feb 2013, 00:51

First i have to say, pretty nice drifting with the wagon, looks like alot of fun!

My thoughts about your project.

If your gonna stick to only 0,7 bar pretty much all you need to do with the engine is to fit a proper turbosystem and go for it!
Someone in England mounted subaru injectors and run 0,6- 0,7bar, and as far as i know that worked very well for him !
With 0,7 bar i think the Holset HX35 would be a good choice for good drifting driving!
But from what i heard 0,7 - 0,8 bar is pretty much all the standard headgasket can take with standard comp.
An easy way to fix this is to o-ring the engineblock, do this right, and the standard engine (head, bottom, gaskets etc)
can take alot moore boost.

That is what im about to do in my Sierra cause i want to boost it up a bit moore Wink

About the exhaustmanifold, yes i think you could choose to take stock manifolds and built them together, works well on 12v and should work as good on 24v.

A plate in the block wont be necessary, but if you want to rev up to 7,000 rpms you should do two things.
First of you need ARP bolts to the rods as you said.
Also you need to fit double valvesprings.

Simplest way is to take Volkswagen Vr6 smaller springs and fit inside of Cosworth stock spring, with this mod you should be able to hit 7,000 rpm.
But the rod is on the limit here, so be carefull with to much abuse up here !

Hope this gives you some ideas.
Put up a thread here on the forum, i would like to se the progress.
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil https://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-Vebotrim/143643252347044?ref
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   lör 16 feb 2013, 16:39

Hey man!

Thanks for your repeated help , and comments, I owe you a beer for sure

Yeah, I think I'm going to stick to 0.7 for now. But as we all know, there is no such thing as enough power, so later on I think I will want to up the revlimit to 7000, and make more boost Wink But for now I dont want to modify anything more than the injectors, and building the turbo system. I need to take small steps, because I'm on a budget, as you can see on the exterior of the car . But I'm not afraid to crash it LOL ! So slowly but steadily.

Not to forget that I think that the skyline injectors will max out at 0.9 bar with petrol. So I would need to change injectors once more when I go over 0.9 bar.

And yeah, I need to use petrol. I saw you guys use E85. Few years ago I would have gone with E85, but the freakin gas stations give very bad quality E85 here. Lots of water mixed in it etc Sad And not to many places sell E85. So I have to use regular 98-100 octane petrol.

On the fordpower forum, Dave helped me a lot as well, and recommended a turbo, I think I'm going to use that: GT3582 . Although I saw that you guys use hx35-hx40-gt40-s, none of those are common here in Hungary Sad .

Its good to know that vr6 springs are good! Never read about it before.

We will try to make the stock manifolds work, but If necessary, we will make a whole new manifold, thankfully I have lots of friends helping me out.

If I have any proggress, I'l post it up in the project threads! Wink

Thanks again!
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tis 25 jun 2013, 20:03

Any chance this could be moved to the project threads?

Anyway, got the turbo and the injectors, so sh*ts about to go down! Smile

Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tis 16 jul 2013, 16:12

Test fitting the turbo:



Thanks for moving the thread to projects! Wink
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tis 16 jul 2013, 17:06

So, the engine is going to be stock, unopened. The turbo is similar to a Gt3582. I choose this turbo as it was a refurbished Garrett, and the size was similar which Macce (who btw halped me a lot already, and gives some inspiration with his build, cheers for you Macce! ), and Dave from fordpower forum (also very decent and helping fella, learned a lot from him, and his threads,thanks!) suggested. Its a twin scroll turbo, although I guess with these long pipes it doesnt really matter?

I will be running nissan RB25 injectors (350cc), which will be enough for my goal, which is 300-350ish HP @ 0.7 bar. All these managed by VEMS ECU.

I will buy a big, aluminium watercooler, so the hot summer (40C°) won't be a problem, also for the same reason, we will be running an oilcooler of a sandwich plate.

Clutch is still in question...

70mm exhaust, which will be very quite so no one suspects anything ;)That is untill the screamer pipe starts to scream when the 50mm WG opens Very Happy. We are using a 50mm BOV as well.

Few words on the suspension:

I ran scorpio 1. cosworth front and rear suspension with polyurethan bushings and a little more steering angle. Diff was a 4.27 welded.

From now on, I'm going to run driftgarage (Drift Garage Facebook) front suspension which is wider, has more steering angle, modified ackermann angle, etc, check it out:



It needs a bit of bodywork, as it is a "bit" wider, we will have to come up with some kind of settle widening, as the car should stay a street-sleeper ;)Also, thats why I'm going to run 16 inch steel wheels on the street.

Also, we will fiddle with the rear suspension (0 camber, 0 toe in), and widen it as well. I will run 10kg/mm front and 8kg/mm rear springs with hight adjustable coilovers. We will weld in the sedan's rear suspension/shock towers, so if I wreck the body, and I can only find a sedan, I can fit the coilovers in that as well Smile

Thats it for now, thanks!
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Kanto
Skogenracing Supreme
avatar

Antal inlägg : 968
Age : 25
Namn : Petter
Från : Gävle
Kör : Volvo & Ford
Registration date : 07-05-11

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   ons 17 jul 2013, 05:14

Awesome project! Good luck with it Smile

Everybody lowes a turbo wagon  
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   ons 17 jul 2013, 14:57

Thanks man!

Some details of the front suspension:




I think angle should be enough for now, also ackermann angle is much better than stock.
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Bitter_
Skogenracing Large
avatar

Antal inlägg : 208
Age : 27
Namn : Robban
Från : LAHOLM
Kör : Mercedes 190E, FORD CAPRI 3100RS, FORD SIERRA M50B25
Registration date : 10-11-09

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tis 23 jul 2013, 08:30

Great Project. I would really like to know how your plans are to reduce camber in the rear!? and more pics on the "steering kit"! is that some bought ready kit or have you build it your self?
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tis 23 jul 2013, 09:44

Hi there.

The steering kit is made by our team (driftgarage)! It can be bought from us, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who can make this near you.

As for the rear, there are a few things you can do, the cheapest is to put in shims between the suspension arm, and the hub. This works well, but you cant adjust it at any time with a spanner Wink You can modify the rear suspension pickup points, or you can adjust with excentric bolts, or excentric bushings. Here is a little article, its about an e30 suspension, but its the same:

http://www.e30m3project.com/e30m3performance/tech_articles/susp-tech/ecc_bush/ecc_bush.htm
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
_Macce_
Skogenracing Elite
avatar

Antal inlägg : 1257
Age : 27
Namn : Marcus
Från : Norrköping
Kör : Överladdad Ford
Registration date : 07-03-23

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tis 23 jul 2013, 14:50

Awsome project man!
Keep the updates flowing ! Very Happy
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil https://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-Vebotrim/143643252347044?ref
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tis 23 jul 2013, 14:55

I'm on it! Smile I'm currently drawing the flanges for the turbo, exhaust, etc. I'l post those up once they are cut at the laser cuters, and they acutally turn out well Smile
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   fre 26 jul 2013, 22:15

So... I'm thinking about scrapping the stock intake manifold, as it is to big, and complicated, but I'm not an engineer, so I need some help.

Here are a few renderings of what I think might work:

See threw:

Closed:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/w3p5.jpg/

See threw:

Closed:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/9tbv.jpg/

The throttlebody will be roughly here:



The plenum is 4.5 liter, and I would use the stock throttle body. What do you guys think about the design, well its not for looks, but can it be optimal (flow etc)? I saw a very beautifully made intake (Macce gave me a link for a build), but that is waaay to complicated for us, and costs a lot of money.. Sad Also for that I would need to make a custom fuel rail, which is not an option.

Any ideas?
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tor 01 aug 2013, 00:21

So, after some good tips, a little internet searching  study  I made the V2 plenum:




I think this will be the final. It can be made out from 90° bended tubes, and sheet metal, so its easy to make, and much better than the first version.
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Kanto
Skogenracing Supreme
avatar

Antal inlägg : 968
Age : 25
Namn : Petter
Från : Gävle
Kör : Volvo & Ford
Registration date : 07-05-11

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   fre 02 aug 2013, 14:49

Nice!
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   mån 13 jan 2014, 18:51

Bringing this back on the top! Smile

So we started the plenum, made some adjustments, but the basic form is the same. Lets hope we can speed up things a little bit! The garage where my car is being built (http://www.driftgarage.hu) has a tons of jobs lined up (which is great!), so we can only progress little by little. Better late than never though! Wink



I cutted the plates from 8mm steel, and we are building the whole plenum from steel, as aluminium is much more expensive, and this is the first v6 plenum for us, so if its a complete garbage (which I really hope it isnt Very Happy), than we didnt spend to much money :)We can always redo it from alu when we want to.
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
hessu75
Skogenracing Large
avatar

Antal inlägg : 156
Age : 42
Namn : Heikki
Från : Finland
Kör : Capri MK3 2,9 turbo, Kawasaki ZX14. Vinterbil Ford Sierra kombi 4x4
Registration date : 13-07-02

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   lör 18 jan 2014, 11:08

BOB engine has those very difficult to by-pass VIS and other antitheft stuff built in to the ECU. As you say in your initial message.
The original intake with variable venturis, is a biatch.
Other people have just locked the servo to a closed position, or open. Does not play a significant role in turbo setup. Or, so I am told.

Also the automatic gear box will not be easy to swap to manual.

Are you going to run a after market ECU and have you already gotten through the electronics for that?

I considered this engine option for my Capri build, but the electronics and sheer magnitude of fabrication was way too much for my capability, as I wanted a manual tranny, not the automatic one.

Go for it dude!

Cheers from Finland.

-Hessu-
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   lör 18 jan 2014, 16:16

Hey man!

I didnt bypass the vis, I made it work! Its not that hard. You need to find the pin that gives the signal for the vacuum switch. Also you need to connect the vacuum tank, and lines.

Also we managed to use it with manual transmission. You need to leave in the gear selector switch, and leave it in '1' gear. Not neutral, as the VIS doesnt operate, and it uses another ignition map. So its not full power. And in first gear it does not want to change up! Also I didnt use the second two lamda's (O2 sensors), only the first two ones.

I used the car for 6 months with the factory EECV setup, it didn't skip a beat. Oh, and it was hard use, as I used it for drifting the mountains in the snow Smile

Also you need to bypass the pats (anti theft system). It wasnt to hard to do it, but researching took a while. I got a lot of help on http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/ .

Here you can see the first time it started on the EECV ecu. Check @ 00:22  Very Happy It was a temporary solution Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj7BqDvHr2U

Now that the car will be turbocharged, it will run on VEMS ecu of course.
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   mån 20 jan 2014, 15:10

Made some progress:


Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   tor 30 jan 2014, 20:13

So we started on the exhaust as well:



At the same time I painted the freshly welded sidesteps:


Also, we will be fitting a "way to big" 90mm thick radiator, and we want to tilt the radiator so we can have a bit more air gap between the engine and the fans. So we need to mod the front lamps a bit:


Things are happening... Smile
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
hessu75
Skogenracing Large
avatar

Antal inlägg : 156
Age : 42
Namn : Heikki
Från : Finland
Kör : Capri MK3 2,9 turbo, Kawasaki ZX14. Vinterbil Ford Sierra kombi 4x4
Registration date : 13-07-02

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   fre 31 jan 2014, 15:28

Looking good mate!

Cheers from Finland ( at this moment in Gothenburg, Sweden. Work schait)

-Hessu-
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   sön 09 feb 2014, 21:19

Again, a little progress today:
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Mancs
Skogenracing Small


Antal inlägg : 46
Age : 29
Namn : Mancs
Från : Hungary
Kör : Sierra wagon 2.9 24v cosworth
Registration date : 13-02-05

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   lör 01 mar 2014, 22:35

We are finished with the plenum. Came out quite well (I guess..), its a little bit smaller than planned, but what the hell...



Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
Kanto
Skogenracing Supreme
avatar

Antal inlägg : 968
Age : 25
Namn : Petter
Från : Gävle
Kör : Volvo & Ford
Registration date : 07-05-11

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   sön 02 mar 2014, 03:12

Nice design man Smile
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
hessu75
Skogenracing Large
avatar

Antal inlägg : 156
Age : 42
Namn : Heikki
Från : Finland
Kör : Capri MK3 2,9 turbo, Kawasaki ZX14. Vinterbil Ford Sierra kombi 4x4
Registration date : 13-07-02

InläggRubrik: Sv: Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo   sön 02 mar 2014, 09:18

Looks good mate Smile

Like the look of the intake.

Cheers

-Hessu-
Till överst på sidan Gå ner
Användarens profil
 
Mancs - Sierra Estate BOB V6 turbo
Föregående ämne Nästa ämne Till överst på sidan 
Sida 1 av 3Gå till sida : 1, 2, 3  Nästa
 Liknande ämnen
-
» Bm-racing sin Sierra med ohc turbo. 398hk og 486nm i motor.
» NO: Race sierra 2.0 8v Turbo
» Mikael - Ford Sierra 2.9i V6 Turbo: 323hk, 487nm på driven! Film sid 33
» Ford Sierra 2.0 Dohc Turbo CZ
» Ford Sierra 2.0 DOHC Turbo.

Behörigheter i detta forum:Du kan inte svara på inlägg i det här forumet
Skogenracing.com :: Skogenracing Society :: Projekt Forum-
Hoppa till: